{"id":3992,"date":"2021-11-30T02:14:10","date_gmt":"2021-11-30T07:14:10","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.midnightsunmag.ca\/?p=3992"},"modified":"2021-11-30T02:17:10","modified_gmt":"2021-11-30T07:17:10","slug":"swords-into-ploughshares","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.midnightsunmag.ca\/swords-into-ploughshares\/","title":{"rendered":"Swords Into Ploughshares"},"content":{"rendered":"\t\t<div data-elementor-type=\"wp-post\" data-elementor-id=\"3992\" class=\"elementor elementor-3992\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-4303daac elementor-section-height-min-height elementor-section-content-top elementor-section-stretched elementor-section-items-bottom elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"4303daac\" data-element_type=\"section\" data-settings=\"{&quot;stretch_section&quot;:&quot;section-stretched&quot;,&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;classic&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-21ab468d\" data-id=\"21ab468d\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-56f565b1 elementor-hidden-tablet elementor-hidden-phone animated-slow elementor-view-default elementor-invisible elementor-widget elementor-widget-icon\" data-id=\"56f565b1\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-settings=\"{&quot;_animation&quot;:&quot;fadeInDown&quot;}\" data-widget_type=\"icon.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-icon-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-icon\">\n\t\t\t<i aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"fas fa-angle-double-down\"><\/i>\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-6c5e2d82 elementor-section-full_width elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"6c5e2d82\" data-element_type=\"section\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-no\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-6327624a\" data-id=\"6327624a\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-398e6bf5 elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"398e6bf5\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t<h2 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\"><a href=\"https:\/\/unsplash.com\/photos\/hkJNx0EDbjE\" target=\"_blank\">Photo: Clayton Cardinalli<\/a><\/h2>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-175262f1 elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"175262f1\" data-element_type=\"section\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-33 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-3d77b945\" data-id=\"3d77b945\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-5892d83f elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"5892d83f\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<h3 style=\"text-align: right;\">11. 30. 2021<\/h3><h1 style=\"text-align: left;\">Swords Into Ploughshares<\/h1><h3 style=\"text-align: right;\"><b><br \/><\/b><strong>Sam Gindin<\/strong><\/h3><h3 style=\"text-align: right;\"><strong>Simon Black<br \/><br \/><\/strong><\/h3>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-39a4cc68 elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"39a4cc68\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p>Simon Black, lead organizer with <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/LAATCanada\">Labour Against the Arms Trade<\/a>, speaks to Sam Gindin, former research director of the Canadian Auto Workers, about the promise of repurposing the Canadian arms industry\u2019s resources for socially useful production \u2013 and winning a just transition for arms industry workers.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-1118759 elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"1118759\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<h2><br \/>Simon Black:<\/h2><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Let\u2019s start with some context. A <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.ic.gc.ca\/eic\/site\/ad-ad.nsf\/eng\/h_ad03978.html#p4\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">2018 study of the defence sector<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> found that it contributed $6.2 billion in GDP and 60,000 jobs to the Canadian economy. Between 2016 and 2020, the <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/sipri.org\/sites\/default\/files\/2021-03\/fs_2103_at_2020.pdf\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">main recipients of Canadian arms exports<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> were the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, accounting for 49 percent of all arms exports, and the United Arab Emirates at 17 percent. Saudi Arabia is also the primary destination for US arms exports. The largest advanced manufacturing export contract, and largest arms deal, in Canadian history is the <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/ploughshares.ca\/pl_publications\/the-canadian-commercial-corporation-not-yet-a-protector-of-human-rights\/\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">$14 billion light armoured vehicle (LAV) deal<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> between General Dynamics Land Systems-Canada and Saudi Arabia, a deal secured by the Canadian Commercial Corporation (CCC) and the Harper Conservative government in 2014. Workers at General Dynamics in London, Ontario, where the LAVs are manufactured, are <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.uniforunit66.com\/general\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">members of Unifor<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, Canada\u2019s largest private sector union.<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What do these facts and figures tell us about the role of the arms industry in the political economy of Canada and in the political economy of the American empire?<\/span><\/p><p>\u00a0<\/p><h2>Sam Gindin:<\/h2><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We need to be clear that what drives these arms exports is above all the geopolitical context. The US supports Saudi Arabia as a trusted partner in superintending developments in the Middle East. Canada, as a subordinate ally of the US, follows suit in arming Saudi Arabia. The jobs and the resultant corporate profits are, of course, not unimportant, but they are secondary to that larger context. In the case of jobs, they help sell Canada\u2019s shameful international role and isolate critics, as the government can say to the public that this or that arms deal \u201ccreates jobs\u201d.<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Some unions are complicit in this. In the absence of a broad <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">political<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> response to Canada\u2019s foreign policy, the jobs involved [in the arms industry] trump other considerations. Even unions that may not be involved in arms production, and that may even be uncomfortable with Canada\u2019s role [in the arms trade], will tend to avoid criticizing the job priorities of other unions. This essentially gives those producing arms a veto over censuring Canada\u2019s complicity in undermining human and democratic rights.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The high value of these exports does signal an impressive level of technology, investment, and skills \u2013 a sophisticated set of productive capacities that could be used in so many alternative and socially positive ways. When [Canadian aerospace company] De Havilland was threatened with closure, I once asked some of its engineers what else they could make, and they looked at me incredulously. They pointed out that as airplane manufacturers, \u201cwe can make anything. We\u2019re intimately involved in propulsion systems and a wide range of materials. We could be making hydroplanes or mechanical ventilators for hospitals. We can make anything.\u201d So the argument that a union might make about dependence on a particular arms contract is only a viable argument when you stop thinking about alternatives. The catch, of course, is that those alternatives are hard to put forth when you\u2019re in a capitalist economy that values possibilities in terms of their profitability. If we counter this [focus on profit] by asking, \u201cAre we making useful things?\u201d or \u201cAre skilled workers contributing to the production of useful things?\u201d then we get very different answers.<\/span><\/p><p>\u00a0<\/p><h2>SB:<\/h2><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Canadian arms exports to Saudi Arabia have been <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.oxfam.ca\/story\/open-letter-to-justin-trudeau-on-arms-sales-to-saudi-arabia\/\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">opposed by a range of civil society organizations<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, from Amnesty International to Oxfam. Collectively these organizations have also called for the federal government to work with trade unions representing workers in the arms industry to develop a plan that secures the livelihoods of those who would be impacted by the end of arms exports to Saudi Arabia. And in Labour Against the Arms Trade\u2019s work with these organizations, we\u2019ve always stressed the importance of centring this demand. Why is it important that mainstream, liberal human rights and humanitarian organizations are calling for a just transition for arms industry workers?<\/span><\/p><p>\u00a0<\/p><h2>SG:\u00a0<\/h2><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">These progressive organizations have come to see that, absent alternatives, workers making arms are locked into survival mode and tend to ignore calls for ending arms production or even see them as a threat to their family\u2019s livelihood. Even faced with the climate crisis, which is so much closer to home, workers will resist supporting policies that undermine their jobs \u2013 unless there is an alternative, which means both comparable jobs in terms of compensation and a transition to such jobs.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But simply calling for a \u201cjust transition\u201d won\u2019t cut it. It may seem a good way to win people over to something that seems logical, but workers are rightly skeptical about it happening \u2013 they do have some experience with, and understanding of, the power relationships that exist in capitalist societies. If we\u2019re not ready to assert that this [transition] will mean raising the question of planning, and not just \u201cplanning\u201d but the kind of intervention that will challenge the profit priorities of capital (business and finance) with social priorities, the discussion isn\u2019t happening on a sufficiently complex and radical level.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Progressive organizations like Oxfam and Amnesty are right to see that this [challenge to profit priorities] is a challenge to capitalist power and capitalism itself and so can be a barrier to convincing people, particularly workers and communities where these arms are manufactured, like the LAVs in London, Ontario. But it\u2019s the only honest \u2013 and possible \u2013 way forward. The message is not just that there are potential alternatives, but also that they could be introduced only <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">if we could build the kind of social force that\u2019s necessary to [implement them]. <\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sometimes people want to obscure the fact that our demands are radical, because they feel like [this reality will make it] harder to mobilize. [But] unless we can respect workers enough to address the reality and win them over, we\u2019re left with a progressive demand that is in essence an abstract slogan.<\/span><\/p><p>\u00a0<\/p><h2>SB:<\/h2><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Let\u2019s talk specifically about Unifor and the LAV deal. The workers who manufacture the LAVs at General Dynamics Land Systems-Canada in London, Ontario, are members of Unifor Local 27. Unifor has not made a public statement about the Saudi arms deal since the 2015 federal election. In <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/ricochet.media\/en\/626\/unifor-walk-back-criticism-of-ndp-for-raising-saudi-arms-deal-in-debate\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">that statement<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, the union said it is \u201ccommitted to standing up for jobs and human rights,\u201d but also, \u201cThe bottom line is the contract has been signed \u2026 No one is losing any jobs.\u201d In May 2021, <\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/unifor1996-o.ca\/unifor-condemns-attacks-on-gaza\/\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">the union rightly condemned Israeli attacks on Palestinians in Gaza<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> and called for the Canadian government to immediately impose a full weapons embargo on Israel, stating: \u201cWe should not be supplying arms that Israeli forces are using to commit these human rights atrocities against the Palestinian people.\u201d What should the union\u2019s position be on the LAV deal? How can it stand up for jobs and human rights?<\/span><\/p><p>\u00a0<\/p><h2>SG:\u00a0<\/h2><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> If unions haven\u2019t done any preparatory work and there\u2019s still a general sense in the country that Canada is on the side of the angels, we can\u2019t expect to change much. So a good place to start the discussion may be not with a direct challenge to [union members\u2019] jobs, but by calling on unions to educate their members about \u2013 i.e. expose \u2013 what\u2019s happening in Saudi Arabia, in Yemen: what the arms are for. The union should be informing their members about this. Workers should know what they\u2019re involved in; doing this kind of preliminary education is not asking too much of unions. The union involved might set up a committee to investigate arms deals and their relationship to the human rights situation in Saudi Arabia and the war in Yemen, pass on this information to its members, and start investigating possible alternative [uses for the industry\u2019s] facilities.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Second, we need to broaden the issue beyond particular unions and particular arms exports. A similar approach should be taken regarding plants that manufacture products that harm the environment, when they could be converted to making socially useful products for addressing the ecological crisis. In fact, there are plants regularly closing in every community across the country because they do not meet corporate profitability goals; it is in these situations that workers have a clearer reason to think about alternative uses of our productive capacities. This opens the door to a more general demand for <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">all <\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">union<\/span> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">locals to have committees that concern themselves with the viability of their workplace and preparing for convertibility when a corporation leaves them in the lurch.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This could then also lead to specific demands on the state,<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> and unions should be looking ahead to develop plans that can come to fruition with the help of the state<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. The government should be instituting a national conversion agency, which will support and plan for these kinds of conversions and think about procurement.<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Unions in a multitude of locations should be asserting that they have an environmental policy and believe that their facility can, if threatened, be converted into playing an important environmental role. To this end, union locals everywhere need to plan for such eventualities, and lobby for supportive state structures. If this in fact happens in many locations, then it becomes a national campaign\/project. But unless unions themselves take a leadership role, it won\u2019t get on the agenda in a significant way. The state will rather hide behind what the union says about the need to protect jobs.<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So it requires laying out a larger strategy, a strategy of the workers themselves starting to have committees that investigate this and think about this and ally with people who\u2019ve thought about it, and look at other examples of where this [transition] has happened. Even if there aren\u2019t a lot of examples, there are quite a few that can be looked at. And the union can help with research to get started, but it should also be part of a larger strategy that\u2019s talking about conversion more generally. And it can extend from the question of arms, of things we shouldn\u2019t be making, to a lot of things that we actually need.\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Environmental concerns are often seen as a threat to jobs, but if we recognize that addressing the environment means addressing everything about how we travel, live, and work \u2013 and that this will require <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">material <\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">supports \u2013 then the closing of any facility undermines our productive capacities to address the environment and other social needs. Putting arms conversion in such a broader strategic perspective can help build the kind of political movement that can also build the power to get issues like arms exports to Saudi Arabia on the agenda.\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I\u2019m worried that if we don\u2019t take a larger perspective but limit ourselves to specific cases \u2013 as important as they are \u2013 we will be isolated. And so we need to build, taking on the entire so-called \u201cdefence\u201d industry and other sectors related to the critical environmental crisis. The oil and gas industry is one such sector, but the entire environmental question is just an enormous opportunity to think about conversion. And it\u2019s also a message to the public sector that instead of thinking about cutbacks, we should be talking about expanding the sector through conversion and through planning \u2013 and even where there are cutbacks, there [are still opportunities to convert facilities] to make socially useful things.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">More generally, [this approach is] part of starting to think about an economy that is democratically planned for social use. People are stumbling along trying to defend their own jobs, accepting restraints or concessions to keep those jobs but ultimately finding that in their own small space they just can\u2019t win or make the advances a rich society should offer. It\u2019s time to raise the larger questions; that\u2019s the only possible way of moving to truly protect ourselves.<\/span><\/p><p>\u00a0<\/p><h2>SB:<\/h2><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right, I agree. Returning for a minute to Unifor\u2019s official position on the LAV deal. Historically, has Unifor, or the Canadian Auto Workers union before it, taken a more principled stand on militarism and the arms industry? Especially an instance in which its members\u2019 jobs were at stake?<\/span><\/p><p>\u00a0<\/p><h2>SG:<\/h2><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes, I recall an example from the late 1980s. The peace movement was putting out an ad against spending money on new fighter helicopters, which were due to be manufactured at a CAW plant in Winnipeg, and [movement organizers] came to us asking for support for the campaign. I took it to [CAW President] <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.thestar.com\/news\/canada\/2017\/02\/20\/canadian-labour-leader-caw-founding-president-bob-white-dies.html\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bob White<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> as something that I thought we should do, but I understood the political difficulties. Bob\u2019s response was that we should do it and we should do it because, even just in our union, we had a responsibility to the membership as a whole and not just to a particular plant. And we couldn\u2019t ignore the impacts on people who would suffer from Canadian and US militarism, the victims of imperial aggression abroad, people who were going to be bombed. And we had a responsibility to go and explain this to the members in Winnipeg who would be making these fighter helicopters. We went to Winnipeg and made the case that in representing the union as a whole, and in considering the social justice issues we believed in, [the national CAW] wouldn\u2019t be supporting this contract. We would be supporting the peace movement mobilizing against it.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, as you can imagine, those members weren\u2019t very happy with this decision. This was a group of workers that were new to the union, and they were extremely frustrated and angry over the national\u2019s decision. The leader of the local did appreciate the larger questions, but he still felt that his responsibility was to the members at the plant.\u00a0 So, we took quite a lot of flak for this.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Not too long later \u2013 I can\u2019t remember how long, maybe it was a half a year \u2013 that contract ended. And we got a note from the local basically saying that the position the national union had taken was the right one; that had the local leadership joined with us to argue for producing civilian aircraft rather than military aircraft, in the long term that would have provided much more stable demand. They noted that they\u2019d been too short-sighted and wanted to let us know that after all the criticism they\u2019d thrown our way, the national union had been right in making its decision.<\/span><\/p><p>\u00a0<\/p><h2>SB:<\/h2><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think people would be surprised to see the current leadership of Unifor take such a position.<\/span><\/p><p>\u00a0<\/p><h2>SG:<\/h2><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I agree. And that\u2019s a reflection of the lowering of expectations: of the union itself, of what\u2019s possible and what its social role is. People would be surprised by the union taking such a position instead of avoiding confrontation with a local.<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><h2>SB:<\/h2><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In the wake of the closure of the GM Oshawa Assembly Facility, <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.greenjobsoshawa.ca\/\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Green Jobs Oshawa<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> launched an inspiring campaign for public ownership and conversion [of the facility] for socially beneficial manufacturing. In the past, workers have made [similar] demands for the conversion of arms manufacturing into socially useful production; perhaps the best-known case is the <\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/lucasplan.org.uk\/\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Lucas Plan<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> in the UK.\u00a0 What can <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/LAATCanada\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Labour Against the Arms Trade<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> learn from examples like Green Jobs Oshawa and the Lucas Plan?<\/span><\/p><p>\u00a0<\/p><h2>SG:<\/h2><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As I argued earlier, in every community there are plant shutdowns happening because corporations don\u2019t find those plants profitable, and maybe they aren\u2019t profitable, but they\u2019re productive facilities that \u2013 if you evaluate them in terms of their potential, rather than their potential for corporations \u2013 you could convert. So, in those cases you are talking to workers who are losing their jobs, and you\u2019re saying, \u201cWhy aren\u2019t we talking about converting this?\u201d That engages workers in fighting for their jobs directly and links that struggle to these larger environmental and geopolitical questions in Saudi Arabia. It opens the door to a larger political program on conversion that organically raises questions about planning and democracy, yet always linked to actual struggles on the ground.\u00a0 And I think that\u2019s key.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">have<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> to find a way of engaging workers and supporting struggles with this kind of dynamic. In every community, the labour council should take on being a catalyst to get locals to set up committees to prepare for the economic restructuring around them, because once their facility or service is lost and we aren\u2019t prepared, it\u2019s generally too late to start a campaign. In a case like arms for Saudi Arabia, actually saying, \u201cIsn\u2019t it possible that with all this technology we could make something that is socially useful? And have more guarantees of job security at some point, if we win in the fight to say we shouldn\u2019t be selling arms to Saudi Arabia in the first place?\u201d The union should be ready, because we don\u2019t want to be the ones to say we don\u2019t give a shit about what happens to other people. So, we must be preparing and struggling with how to link the larger issues to concrete local struggles.<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In Green Jobs Oshawa, we\u2019ve learned about all kinds of possibilities. But the difficulty is winning workers over.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t that workers in Oshawa didn\u2019t think [conversion for green jobs] was logical or common sense or a good idea; it\u2019s that they didn\u2019t believe that we had the power to do this, and part of that was they didn\u2019t see their unions doing this! So, winning unions over is critical, and a modest start is to ask unions to at least educate their members about [these possibilities] and set up committees to investigate them, because that isn\u2019t a difficult thing. And part of the shame here is that unions aren\u2019t even doing that.<\/span><\/p><p>\u00a0<\/p><h2>SB:<\/h2><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And why is that?<\/span><\/p><p>\u00a0<\/p><h2>SG:<\/h2><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There\u2019s been a massive defeat of the labour movement and workers are demoralized and their expectations of what they can do have been lowered. This is a problem that we must overcome, and it\u2019s reflected in the leadership as well, who don\u2019t have that political imagination, are themselves defensive \u2013 not wanting to stir up anything that might raise larger questions or demands for a new direction \u2013 so they become more conservative. And it\u2019s a reflection of the weakness of the left, our inability to put these larger questions on the agenda and organize. From that perspective, the work that <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/LAATCanada\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Labour Against the Arms Trade<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> is doing is so important.<\/span><\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-673f0def elementor-widget-divider--view-line_icon elementor-view-default elementor-widget-divider--element-align-center elementor-widget elementor-widget-divider\" data-id=\"673f0def\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"divider.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-divider\">\n\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-divider-separator\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-icon elementor-divider__element\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<i aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"fas fa-sun\"><\/i><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-30a3c837 elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"30a3c837\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sam Gindin was research director of the Canadian Auto Workers from 1974\u20132000. He is co-author (with Leo Panitch) of\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.versobooks.com\/books\/1527\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The Making of Global Capitalism<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0(Verso Books), and co-author (with Leo Panitch and Steve Maher) of\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.haymarketbooks.org\/books\/1473-the-socialist-challenge-today\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The Socialist Challenge Today<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, the expanded and updated American edition (Haymarket Books).<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Simon Black is lead organizer with <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/LAATCanada\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Labour Against the Arms Trade<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, a grassroots coalition of peace and labour activists working to end Canada\u2019s participation in the international arms trade. LAAT organizes for a just transition for arms industry workers and arms conversion for socially useful production. 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O\u2019Brien and Eman Abdelhadi, the authors of the new book Everything For Everyone: An Oral History of the New York Commune, 2052-2072.<\/span><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.midnightsunmag.ca\/what-we-mean-by-community-is-our-yearning-for-communism\/\"     class=\"crp_link post-7485\"><span class=\"crp_title\">What We Mean by Community is Our Yearning for Communism<\/span><\/a><span class=\"crp_excerpt\"> M.E. O\u2019Brien on family abolition and the communizing of care as political horizons worth fighting for. A conversation with Midnight Sun editor David Camfield.<\/span><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.midnightsunmag.ca\/protest-and-pleasure-a-revolution-led-by-sex-workers\/\"     class=\"crp_link post-3820\"><span class=\"crp_title\">Protest & Pleasure: A Revolution Led by Sex Workers<\/span><\/a><span class=\"crp_excerpt\"> A conversation with Monica Forrester, Toni-Michelle Williams, and Chanelle Gallant about why trans women of colour sex workers are the leaders we need, lighting the way to revolutionary horizons.<\/span><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.midnightsunmag.ca\/festivals-of-the-possible\/\"     class=\"crp_link post-4080\"><span class=\"crp_title\">Festivals of the Possible<\/span><\/a><span class=\"crp_excerpt\"> Megan Kinch on the Occupy movement, which erupted 10 years ago: its particular blend of spontaneity, organization, and technology; the forms it took in Toronto and elsewhere in Canada; and its mixed legacies. 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workers.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":3999,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"elementor_header_footer","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[121],"tags":[140,139,144,145,141,142,143,138,137],"class_list":["post-3992","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-conversations","tag-arms-trade","tag-canadian-arms-industry","tag-canadian-auto-workers","tag-green-jobs","tag-green-jobs-oshawa","tag-industrial-conversion","tag-labour-against-the-arms-trade","tag-sam-gindin","tag-simon-black","entry","has-media"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v23.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Swords Into Ploughshares &#8211; Midnight Sun<\/title>\n<meta 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